Paul Eres (rinku) wrote in tildemask,
Paul Eres
rinku
tildemask

conversation between me and harlock about tilde on 8/24/02, part 1 of 2

Session Start: Sat Aug 24 05:03:23 2002
05:03 *** Now talking in #tilde
05:03 *** Harlock> has joined #tilde
05:03 Rinku> Rinku> 1.
05:03 Rinku> Rinku> making toy for self
05:03 Rinku> Rinku> and that being punished
05:03 Rinku> Rinku> smashed by eleven
05:03 Rinku> Rinku> that i think was the beginning of the story
05:03 Rinku> Rinku> the seed of the game's idea
05:03 Rinku> Harlock> well, the first sentence spake was
05:03 Rinku> Harlock> "in my game santa is going to be a monster, like in real life"
05:03 Rinku> Harlock> then from there, we decided on elves, but as far as plot goes, yes
05:03 Rinku> Harlock> that scene is the start
05:03 Rinku> (saving)
05:04 Rinku> okay, so, what abstract does that reconcretize?
05:04 Rinku> working for yourself is bad for the unworld
05:04 Rinku> making toys for yourself*
05:04 Rinku> and that the proper elf is he who makes toys only for others
05:04 Rinku> but doesn't play with toys
05:04 Harlock> also sort of that its natural for him to work for himself, and it has to be "beaten out of him" so to speak
05:04 Rinku> yeah
05:05 Rinku> what happens next in the story
05:05 Rinku> the test?
05:05 Harlock> eleven takes tilde to santa's chamber
05:05 Rinku> or the him forgetting about the toy?
05:05 Harlock> and santa unfurls the banner
05:05 Rinku> oh
05:05 Rinku> yeah
05:05 Rinku> so, santa's chamber
05:05 Rinku> santa is a robot (though this is not known)
05:05 Rinku> but here you don't see that, you just see santa talking about the banner
05:06 Rinku> we should rewrite part of it so that santa says 'no punishment for now'
05:06 Rinku> 'since it's your first mistake, and many elves make it'
05:06 Harlock> yeah
05:06 Rinku> so the next part after that is him waking up
05:06 Rinku> and not remembering the toy
05:06 Harlock> hmm
05:06 Rinku> or vaguely remembering it
05:06 Harlock> right, then the test
05:06 Rinku> yeah
05:07 Rinku> we should redraw cilde
05:07 Rinku> she looks too much like a normal elf
05:07 Rinku> she should have a different walkabout
05:07 Harlock> noted
05:07 Rinku> anyway, that scene is about her not remembering the favorites of others
05:07 Rinku> but writing down her own favorites
05:08 Rinku> and getting thrown into the spider hole for it
05:08 Rinku> so it's similar
05:08 Harlock> so how do we make a distinction between the crimes
05:08 Rinku> toy = working for yourself
05:08 Rinku> favorites = thinking of what you like
05:08 Harlock> why one warrants berating, and why one warrants the spider hole
05:08 Rinku> that
05:08 Rinku> because the toy was only physical betrayal
05:08 Rinku> the favorites thing was mental betrayal
05:09 Rinku> the santa painting
05:09 Harlock> probably should include a "you've been warned before!" or something
05:09 Rinku> you should draw it
05:09 Rinku> and have it talk
05:09 Rinku> say 'these are her favorites. she was not supposed to know these. etc.'
05:09 Rinku> and then have its face change
05:09 Rinku> saying 'TO THE SPIDERS!!'
05:10 Rinku> k, then the mask
05:10 Harlock> okay
05:10 Rinku> we need to make finding the mask better
05:10 Harlock> yes
05:10 Rinku> right now he's just in a blank room
05:10 Rinku> and finds it nongraphically
05:10 Harlock> but
05:10 Rinku> yeah, you drew those
05:11 Rinku> i will add them
05:11 Harlock> i drew cutscenes of him finding the mask in the bag
05:11 Harlock> okay
05:11 Rinku> and then he looks in front of the mirror
05:11 Harlock> you didn't add any of the ps4 style cutscenes yet
05:11 Rinku> the next day
05:11 Rinku> i will later
05:11 Rinku> near the end
05:11 Rinku> after gfx and font finalized
05:11 Rinku> so what does the mirror scene mean?
05:11 Rinku> what does the mask mean?
05:11 Rinku> brb
05:11 Harlock> what mirror?
05:13 Harlock> http://65.32.139.113/sitegfx/xmas/santalaughani.gif
05:13 Harlock> should we use that for the santa painting?
05:15 Rinku> back
05:15 Rinku> the mirror!
05:15 Rinku> the one he stands in front of
05:15 Rinku> and says he can't see himself
05:15 Harlock> don't remember him ever standing in front of a mirror
05:16 Rinku> then how does he realize it makes him invisible
05:16 Harlock> i thought he noticed when he left the room while wearing it or something
05:16 Harlock> because i don't think a mirror is referenced in the game's textboxes
05:16 Rinku> didn't we use that pic elsewhere
05:16 Harlock> but anyway, it can be added if not
05:16 Rinku> it's in there already
05:16 Rinku> if not, it's not in the version you had
05:17 Rinku> what does the mask mean
05:17 Rinku> why it the game named after it
05:19 Harlock> because the mask is the means by which tilde is fully inspired to challenge santa, and it shows that andre takes the act of "toymaking" seriously by creating things that benefit the user not just amuse them
05:19 Harlock> also, its not just some ancient artifact like a holy sword, it was made by one of the >'s own wills
05:19 Rinku> yes, and also
05:20 Rinku> it is representative of the idea that most people are :P in public but more >ic alone
05:20 Rinku> like the elves who agreed w/ tilde when alone
05:20 Rinku> but not when in a group
05:20 Harlock> we need to demonstrate somehow that the "people" in the game (meaning other than >s and strand's forces) aren't naturally :P, but that its largely masks
05:20 Rinku> yes
05:20 Harlock> as it is, the town's dialogue is just 100% insanity
05:20 Rinku> hehe
05:20 Rinku> yeah
05:21 Harlock> maybe we can solve it by doing some interiors of houses
05:21 Rinku> yeah
05:21 Rinku> and
05:21 Rinku> have people in town
05:21 Rinku> walking around
05:21 Rinku> on the streets
05:21 Rinku> show how they want to be seen as unworldly in public
05:21 Rinku> but have an inner human nature
05:21 Rinku> like the characters in 1984
05:22 Harlock> is there a "market-type" section of town?
05:22 Rinku> some of them, anyway
05:22 Rinku> not yet
05:22 Rinku> market wouldn't exist
05:22 Rinku> it would be communistic
05:22 Harlock> right
05:22 Rinku> all products being directly sent to people
05:22 Harlock> a cooperative then
05:22 Rinku> or picked up in lines
05:22 Rinku> with tickets
05:22 Harlock> with lines of people waiting for bread
05:22 Harlock> but importantly
05:22 Harlock> we could have tons of npcs gathered in these areas
05:22 Harlock> around television monitors
05:23 Rinku> yeah
05:23 Rinku> you need to make more npcs then
05:23 Rinku> and we need more enemy gfx
05:23 Harlock> and in these groups would be the most unworldly of the groups
05:23 Rinku> and to redo the old ones
05:23 Rinku> yeah
05:23 Harlock> i plan to redo all the enemy graphics
05:23 Rinku> like the duckman
05:23 Rinku> in 1984
05:23 Rinku> who talked like a duck
05:23 Rinku> and you couldn't see his eyes
05:24 Rinku> hm
05:24 Rinku> tilde is sort of like our antehm
05:24 Rinku> anthem
05:24 Harlock> yeah
05:24 Rinku> or 1984/brave new world
05:24 Harlock> a dystopian story
05:24 Harlock> all good authors have one
05:24 Rinku> so
05:24 Rinku> that's why it has to be tragic
05:24 Harlock> the gameplay of the town is gathering riddles, right?
05:25 Rinku> but not tragic in the way of 1984
05:25 Rinku> yes
05:25 Rinku> tragic in that they rise against the unworld and are defeated
05:25 Rinku> but still not 'defeated'
05:25 Rinku> in the way that the main character in 1984 was
05:25 Harlock> okay, so that's some ideas for new canada
05:26 Harlock> what comes next story-wise? from where we were?
05:26 Harlock> oh yeah, the mask
05:26 Rinku> yes, after he finds the mask he puts it on
05:26 Rinku> and goes after cilde
05:26 Rinku> perhaps we should show that he is friends with cilde?
05:26 Rinku> since it kind of seems strange
05:26 Rinku> to have her only scene be death
05:26 Rinku> like, maybe that day
05:26 Rinku> before the test
05:26 Rinku> he could tell the idea of making a toy to her
05:26 Harlock> perhaps she could be waiting outside for him after he's turned out of santa's chamber after the lecture
05:26 Rinku> and she could say something like she tried that a lot of times
05:27 Rinku> yeah
05:27 Rinku> and she could say something like 'if you want to make a toy and keep them, you need to do it more secretly'
05:27 Rinku> and tilde could say
05:27 Rinku> 'no! i've had enough. making toys for myself is too dangerous'
05:28 Harlock> alright
05:28 Harlock> this is too-fold
05:28 Harlock> shows that cilde has a history of dissension
05:28 Harlock> and that tilde has a reason to care that she was thrown to spiders
05:28 Rinku> yep
05:29 Rinku> rand once said
05:29 Rinku> that every sentence in atlas shrugged is at least five-fold
05:29 Harlock> heh
05:29 Rinku> and sometimes as many as 60-fold
05:29 Harlock> probably its true
05:29 Harlock> so, onward to the spider hole
05:29 Rinku> yep
05:29 Rinku> he sees her skeleton
05:29 Harlock> the reason for spiders is obvious
05:30 Harlock> webs and such
05:30 Rinku> yep
05:30 Rinku> we need more spider types there
05:30 Rinku> baby spiders
05:30 Rinku> webs on the walls too
05:30 Harlock> hmm
05:30 Harlock> is there a boss of that place?
05:30 Rinku> just the three spiders
05:30 Rinku> three blue ones
05:31 Rinku> but it's not a 'boss'
05:31 Rinku> although you can't run from them
05:31 Rinku> nor any other blue spider
05:31 Harlock> okay, does tilde have any attacks that can hit all at that point?
05:31 Rinku> ampersand
05:31 Rinku> the doll he finds on cilde
05:31 Harlock> hmm
05:31 Harlock> perhaps there could be a boss of a spider in a web
05:32 Rinku> how
05:32 Harlock> and the only way to be able to target the spider is to destroy the web, but the web can be like ... 6 enemies
05:32 Harlock> and they all have to be destroyed simultaneously
05:32 Rinku> hm
05:32 Harlock> or else it'll grow back
05:32 Rinku> yeah...
05:32 Rinku> wonder if that's possible
05:32 Rinku> in ohr
05:32 Rinku> let's see...
05:33 Rinku> there is no 'revive'
05:33 Rinku> only summon
05:33 Rinku> so each turn the webs could summon another web
05:33 Rinku> if there is room, the web will reappear
05:33 Rinku> and if all are dead, none will be summoned
05:33 Rinku> so it could start with 3 segments
05:33 Rinku> and work up to 7
05:34 Rinku> and each of those webs could decrease tilde's speed
05:34 Rinku> k, sounds good enough
05:35 Rinku> without the webs, the master spider could run?
05:35 Harlock> hmm, yeah
05:35 Rinku> or perhaps fall?
05:35 Harlock> good idea
05:35 Rinku> could be a pit under it
05:35 Rinku> and it would be standing on a pit w/ webs
05:35 Rinku> and when the webs die it falls
05:35 Harlock> yeah
05:35 Rinku> would have to draw different frames
05:36 Rinku> each frame would summon the next frame
05:36 Rinku> so it'll look like it's falling
05:36 Harlock> it would attack itself when alone with an attack that had a caption like "master spider is falling"
05:36 Rinku> yeah
05:36 Rinku> also
05:36 Rinku> should we make the enemies not random
05:36 Rinku> but more like nova and harlock's game
05:36 Rinku> where they wander about
05:36 Rinku> as npcs
05:37 Rinku> and they could constantly come out of cracks in the walls
05:37 Harlock> hmm
05:37 Rinku> be made via plotscripting
05:37 Rinku> and move in patterns
05:37 Harlock> the latter is a good idea
05:37 Harlock> at least for the spiderhole
05:37 Rinku> like, sometimes chase tilde
05:37 Rinku> and sometimes flee from him
05:38 Rinku> okay, we'll do that
05:38 Rinku> so, after the spider hole
05:38 Rinku> the tilde/strand scene is pretty good as is, i think
05:38 Harlock> yeah
05:38 Harlock> don't see much to improve there
05:38 Harlock> and the scene after it of recruiting other elves, but then losing them to group mentality is good too
05:39 Rinku> yeah
05:39 Rinku> should make the group larger though
05:39 Rinku> like 15-20 npcs
05:39 Rinku> since part of the theme is that the unworld is like one organism
05:39 Rinku> and needs lots of interchangable cells
05:39 Rinku> that's one thing about the unworld rand didn't know
05:39 Harlock> okay
05:40 Rinku> but bloom and we do
05:40 Harlock> what comes next?
05:40 Rinku> the decision to stop christmas himself
05:40 Rinku> i think
05:40 Harlock> wasn't there supposed to be a puzzle involving clocks and doors?
05:40 Rinku> and he walks past the electric wires
05:40 Rinku> hm
05:40 Rinku> that's later
05:41 Rinku> when they return to the workshop
05:41 Harlock> oh
05:41 Rinku> here, there are just electric wires
05:41 Rinku> that prevent elves from leaving
05:41 Rinku> and sentries
05:41 Rinku> but he easily gets past the sentrie
05:41 Rinku> since he is invisible
05:41 Rinku> and the wires he just avoids using maze-logic
05:41 Harlock> and snowmen attack outside
05:41 Rinku> yes
05:42 Rinku> the snowmen guards can see his footprints
05:42 Rinku> so he has to remove the mask
05:42 Rinku> or
05:42 Rinku> we could have him wear it
05:42 Rinku> and just have him as indentations in the snow
05:42 Rinku> walking footprints
05:42 Rinku> not sure how that would relate to the theme though
05:42 Rinku> which would be preferable?
05:42 Harlock> hmm
05:43 Harlock> well, why snowmen?
05:43 Harlock> spiders are there for a reason
05:43 Rinku> because they are made up of snow
05:43 Rinku> hm
05:43 Rinku> children make snowmen
05:43 Rinku> so they are another symbol of how the unworld attacks where you least suspect
05:43 Rinku> snowmen are made by groups
05:43 Rinku> usually
05:43 Rinku> they are objects formed by many hands
05:44 Harlock> hrmm
05:44 Rinku> hehe
05:44 Rinku> think of a better reason to use them then
05:44 Harlock> that's a good reason
05:45 Harlock> just trying to think of how he comes into confrontation with them
05:45 Harlock> can a collective mind see beyond the powers of the mask?
05:45 Rinku> probably not
05:46 Rinku> the collective mind is made up of people in :P mode
05:46 Rinku> so it can't directly see people in normal individual mode
05:46 Rinku> just see them through the eyes of the :P mode
05:46 Harlock> well, the nature of the mask's invisibility is that it represents how you won't get hammered if you don't stick out
05:46 Rinku> that's why people in :P mode hate people in individual mode
05:46 Harlock> that's why it has :P on it
05:46 Rinku> yeah
05:46 Rinku> if you pretend to be a :P you will be invisible
05:47 Rinku> as long as it's just a mask and not reality there would be hope
05:47 Rinku> but if it becomes fused you fail
05:47 Harlock> hmm, can't think of any good way to incite the snowman confrontations right now
05:47 Rinku> maybe we would have elves with fused :P masks
05:47 Rinku> near the end
05:47 Rinku> like, maybe strand
05:47 Rinku> he copied the design
05:47 Rinku> and made a bunch of masks to counter the :P mask
05:47 Rinku> and sends an army wearing them
05:47 Rinku> that all look like the 'unworld soldier'
05:47 Rinku> in your test drawing
05:48 Harlock> yeah
05:48 Harlock> good idea
05:48 Harlock> great idea, even
05:48 Harlock> haha, how many npcs can be onscreen simultaneously?
05:48 Harlock> 36 seperate i know, but how many copies?
05:48 Rinku> 255 i think
05:49 Harlock> excellent
05:49 Harlock> we need a huge sprawling force
05:49 Rinku> yeah
05:49 Harlock> of :P's in suits
05:49 Rinku> anyway, to the snowmen
05:49 Rinku> maybe we could mention them earlier
05:50 Rinku> somewhere
05:50 Rinku> how about
05:50 Rinku> we give another elf a name
05:50 Rinku> one of the ones who agrees most while alone
05:50 Rinku> but is too scared to help tilde
05:51 Rinku> and that elf can talk with tilde about tilde's plan to destroy the sleigh's bags of toys
05:51 Rinku> and mention that tilde would never get past the snowmen
05:51 Rinku> and could mention how they are made
05:51 Rinku> and how the elves are forced to make them, each elf contributing one handful of snow
05:51 Harlock> heh
05:51 Rinku> each elf leader one button
05:51 Rinku> and santa the nose
05:52 Harlock> alright
05:52 Harlock> as for how they discover him?
05:53 Rinku> footprints in snow would be good, if it meant something
05:53 Rinku> what would the snow represent?
05:53 Rinku> maybe it could start snowing half way there
05:54 Rinku> or
05:55 Rinku> maybe a reindeer could smell him
05:55 Rinku> and alert the snowmen
05:55 Rinku> rudolph
05:55 Harlock> but wouldn't they alert santa too?
05:55 Rinku> oh
05:55 Rinku> yeah
05:55 Rinku> so maybe remove the snowmen?
05:55 Harlock> hrmm
05:55 Rinku> and save them for shiz's part?
05:55 Rinku> or
05:56 Rinku> have them there
05:56 Rinku> but he doesn't have to fight any
05:56 Rinku> unless he talks to them
05:56 Rinku> so he has the option of gaining levels
05:56 Rinku> but when the whole group comes there later
05:56 Harlock> alright
05:56 Rinku> then they fight
05:56 Rinku> since they can't all be invisible
05:56 Harlock> well
05:56 Harlock> you could have snowmen bouncing around at wander
05:56 Harlock> and he just has to avoid them
05:57 Rinku> yeah
05:57 Harlock> without touching them
05:57 Rinku> k, that's the snow part
05:57 Rinku> this is where our old demo got stuck
05:57 Rinku> w/ that bug
05:57 Harlock> yeah, but we fixed it
05:57 Rinku> yeah
05:57 Rinku> the sleigh part is okay
05:58 Rinku> but we might vary the santa battle more
05:58 Harlock> it happens when an after battle script is used on a battle called from a script
05:58 Rinku> make him say stuff in battle
05:58 Rinku> now that they are allowed to do that
05:58 Harlock> yeah
05:58 Harlock> santa should just be totally imposing
05:58 Rinku> going to redraw?
05:58 Harlock> have the aire of this great sorceror
05:58 Harlock> yeah
05:59 Rinku> what does the falling from the sleigh mean?
05:59 Rinku> that he isn't able to defeat santa until he has a fuller experience and understanding?
05:59 Harlock> yeah
05:59 Rinku> that he can only get by seeing new canada in full?
05:59 Rinku> k
05:59 Harlock> since he kind of loses because santa is able to use santa shine on him
05:59 Rinku> yep
06:00 Rinku> indicating he still has no rational philosophy of egoism
06:00 Rinku> antimony could be like a rand-type figure
06:00 Harlock> santa could ask questions in battle
06:00 Rinku> yeah
06:00 Harlock> like the typical altruist standbys
06:00 Harlock> and tilde's replies would just get more and more shaky
06:00 Harlock> not knowing how to defend himself
06:00 Rinku> yeah
06:00 Harlock> and then BAM! santa shine
06:00 Rinku> good idea
06:01 Rinku> next, the meen/neem scene
06:01 Rinku> it's pretty good as is, i think
06:01 Harlock> yeah
06:01 Harlock> its one of the best scenes in the product so far
06:02 Rinku> okay, now from here the game is partly unfinished
06:02 Rinku> we need to add stuff to the town, forest, etc.
06:02 Harlock> only the dialogue about their uncle is a bit confusing
06:02 Harlock> how exactly does their scene end, after tilde gives them the flutoscope?
06:02 Harlock> they talk about uncle mortevold?
06:02 Rinku> yeah
06:03 Rinku> i'd have to reread it to see
06:03 Harlock> they mention something about santa's red sword too
06:03 Harlock> i forget
06:03 Harlock> one second, i'll read
06:03 Rinku> k
06:05 Harlock> Townsman: Hello. The day's work is done and I return to New Canada for my daily sleep.
06:07 Rinku> ?
06:07 Rinku> i wrote that?
06:07 Rinku> oh, for the train i think
06:09 Harlock> yeah
06:09 Harlock> its funny, like most of the town dialogue
06:10 Harlock> alright, read the part in question
06:10 Harlock> its kosher
06:10 Harlock> they say "maybe he can go visit uncle. he used to work for santa"
06:10 Harlock> and the other says "no fool he worked for grandpa whitehead. his beard was blue, and he didn't have a red coat."
06:10 Harlock> and the other replies "but his sword was red."
06:11 Harlock> then they get into an argument and threaten to shoot tilde
06:11 Rinku> yeah
06:11 Harlock> so at that point, he's hurtled out into new canada
06:11 Rinku> they're supposed to be about 7 or 8
06:11 Rinku> okay, so after that
06:11 Rinku> the game becomes 'nonlinear' sort of
06:11 Rinku> you can explore all of the town
06:11 Rinku> and have to find out where the uncle lives
06:12 Harlock> the primary objective in new canada at first is to find mortevold, but you can go other places too
06:12 Harlock> we'll have a church
06:12 Harlock> a school
06:12 Rinku> hospital
06:12 Rinku> mental hospital
06:12 Harlock> a town center with food cooperative
06:12 Rinku> old folks home
06:12 Rinku> jail
06:12 Harlock> a factory?
06:12 Rinku> yeah
06:12 Rinku> lots of them
06:13 Rinku> each making a different product
06:13 Rinku> or different part of a product
06:13 Harlock> yeah
06:13 Rinku> one could make left shoes
06:13 Rinku> and another make right shoes
06:13 Harlock> it would be good if the workers didn't even know what they were making
06:13 Rinku> a factory of all left shoes
06:13 Harlock> just knew how to tell if it looked correct or not
06:13 Rinku> yeah
06:14 Rinku> so the sole of a left shoe
06:14 Rinku> that rubber pad thing
06:14 Rinku> could be one
06:14 Rinku> where meen and neem's parents work
06:14 Harlock> right
06:14 Rinku> also
06:14 Harlock> hmm, this begs a question
06:14 Rinku> we should show andre's toys in meen and neem's room
06:15 Rinku> to show that he is having an effect
06:15 Harlock> is there a leader of the new world?
06:15 Rinku> maybe
06:15 Harlock> a figurehead, i mena
06:15 Harlock> like bb
06:15 Rinku> who doesn't exist?
06:15 Rinku> but just a name?
06:15 Harlock> right
06:15 Harlock> just an image to be plastered all over town
06:15 Harlock> on banners
06:15 Rinku> yeah
06:15 Harlock> on signposts
06:15 Harlock> on tvs
06:15 Rinku> did bb exist?
06:15 Rinku> i don't remember
06:16 Harlock> no, and neither did the "infamous traitor" guy, the leader of the resistance which didn't exist
06:16 Harlock> the resistance lie was just there to catch dissenters
06:16 Rinku> ah
06:17 Rinku> k, so we'll have a bb type figure
06:17 Rinku> sort of god-looking
06:17 Rinku> with a big beard
06:17 Rinku> and angry eyes
06:18 Rinku> and maybe wings
06:18 Harlock> okay, is there anything to "do" in the town
06:18 Rinku> or a unicorn horn
06:18 Harlock> other than take in scenery and see the state of the world?
06:18 Rinku> yeah
06:18 Rinku> fight thugs
06:18 Rinku> not get caught
06:18 Rinku> find items
06:18 Harlock> alright
06:19 Harlock> so eventually they come to find mortevold
06:19 Rinku> we could have raving gangs of thugs
06:19 Rinku> that emerge from the sewers
06:19 Rinku> and then run back
06:19 Rinku> sort of like socialist anarchists
06:19 Rinku> or ch-elite
06:19 Harlock> hmm, should there be an equivalent of prole and bourgeoisie?
06:19 Harlock> the town could have a coffee cooperative too
06:20 Rinku> all the bourgeoise are likely long dead
06:20 Rinku> or their descendents
06:20 Rinku> are the sewere people
06:20 Harlock> where people dressed in black hang out
06:20 Rinku> yeah
06:20 Harlock> and talk about ch-elite things
06:20 Rinku> abolish meaning
06:20 Rinku> you should make most of the unworld test drawn characters as real character types
06:20 Rinku> in the game
06:21 Rinku> the church leader could look like the unworld mystic
06:21 Harlock> okay
06:21 Rinku> caduceus would be the you know who ite
06:21 Rinku> the nihilists could be...
06:21 Rinku> ghosts?
06:21 Rinku> shadows on the floor?
06:21 Harlock> soldiers would come in at the end, due to televisions spying on them using the mask at certain points
06:22 Harlock> like in mortevold's house
06:22 Harlock> talk show louts are just all over the place
06:22 Rinku> yeah
06:22 Rinku> the youth would mostly be talk show louts
06:22 Harlock> mystic can run the church
06:22 Harlock> flag carrier?
06:22 Rinku> and the olds would mostly be pragmatists
06:22 Rinku> the 'life is not like that'ists
06:22 Rinku> the flag carriers are not that important
06:23 Rinku> since everyone of the others if a flag carrier
06:23 Rinku> and the bb posters are flag carrier like
06:23 Harlock> true
06:23 Rinku> we could have a person posting the posters
06:23 Rinku> and he could look like the flag carrier
06:23 Harlock> roving gang members are socialist anarchist activists
06:23 Rinku> yep
06:23 Harlock> environmentalists?
06:23 Rinku> they could be in the ch-elite place maybe
06:24 Rinku> or the forest
06:24 Rinku> they could be the forest rangers
06:24 Rinku> or forest caretakers
06:24 Harlock> they could give you hints on the direction to take
06:24 Harlock> if you bring them soybeans
06:24 Harlock> or tofu
06:24 Harlock> found in the town
06:25 Harlock> since they'd want you out of the forest anyway
06:25 Rinku> yeah
06:25 Rinku> they could be part of the trees
06:25 Rinku> merged into the trees maybe
06:26 Harlock> right
06:26 Harlock> you know who-ite and ch-elite are taken care of, nihilists
06:26 Harlock> nihilists are strange
06:27 Harlock> i get the image of them being like the dementors in harry potter almost
06:27 Rinku> oh
06:27 Rinku> the swerds
06:27 Harlock> ah
06:27 Rinku> we could redraw them to look like nihilists maybe
06:27 Harlock> the swards already use a human outline with pure black, right?
06:27 Rinku> yeah
06:27 Rinku> but they need human shadows
06:27 Harlock> and the swerds use the four legged glowing blue eye form
06:27 Rinku> on the floor
06:28 Harlock> hmm
06:28 Harlock> maybe when they walk, they could flicker between solid black and human?
06:28 Rinku> yeah
06:29 Harlock> the world doesn't work like that-ist
06:29 Harlock> can be found in the school's headmaster
06:29 Harlock> and older townsfools
06:29 Rinku> yeah
06:29 Harlock> fatcat?
06:29 Rinku> could be the factory owners
06:30 Rinku> or the stock traders
06:30 Harlock> how would we show them, though?
06:30 Rinku> not sure
06:30 Rinku> they are a symbol of complacency
06:30 Rinku> so they need to be shown being complacent rather than taking action
06:30 Rinku> since they like money and goods and material objects
06:31 Harlock> maybe one of the factories could be on fire or something
06:31 Harlock> and inside all the workers are running about crazily
06:32 Harlock> but the fatcat would be in his office counting money or something
06:32 Harlock> and remark on how he'd handle the issue of the fire when the time came
06:32 Rinku> yeah
06:32 Rinku> good idea
06:32 Harlock> "these things usually take care of themselves if you just ignore it for a while."
06:32 Rinku> perhaps we could make a factory one of the riddles
06:32 Rinku> so that its mandatory to go there
06:32 Rinku> or something built in the factory
06:33 Rinku> as the answer to the riddle
06:33 Harlock> alright
06:33 Harlock> hmm
06:33 Harlock> i don't know how interesting it would be
06:33 Harlock> but maybe antimony's riddles could just be like
06:34 Harlock> he says "collect for me the signs of the world's decay"
06:34 Harlock> and you have to find several unworld types and report back
06:34 Harlock> that includes going to the factory and seeing what's happening, completing the school quest, etc.
06:34 Rinku> yeah
06:34 Rinku> although he should also ask 'what is the answer to curing this'
06:34 Rinku> and you need the flutoscope
06:34 Harlock> yeah, after you get them all
06:35 Rinku> yeah
06:35 Rinku> also
06:35 Rinku> antimony should open up stores to you
06:35 Rinku> after each new item brought back
06:35 Rinku> so you can get new items as a reward for each
06:36 Harlock> right
06:36 Harlock> you'd collect an item of proof from each type
06:36 Harlock> like a viking portable book from the coffee cooperative
06:36 Harlock> viking portable of some blagful philosopher
06:36 Rinku> hehe
06:36 Rinku> yeah
06:37 Rinku> we should make up some name
06:37 Rinku> that sounds existentialist and postmodernistic
06:37 Harlock> hrmm
06:37 Harlock> okay, i'll note that and think on it later
06:37 Harlock> let's move on for now
06:37 Rinku> k
06:38 Harlock> so the town has an abundance of things to do
06:38 Rinku> yeah
06:38 Harlock> and eventually one meets mortevold
06:38 Rinku> like 8 unworld items maybe
06:38 Rinku> like the 8 triforce pieces
06:38 Rinku> it could be the main part of the game
06:38 Rinku> or at least a third of it
06:39 Rinku> first third: up to meen and neem
06:39 Rinku> second third: unworld riddles
06:39 Rinku> third third: attack on santa (school, train, shiz, santa)
06:40 Rinku> we should try to get this done by xmas
06:40 Rinku> only 4 months
06:40 Rinku> 120 days
06:40 Harlock> after meeting mortevold, he talks about his general malaise and you can view the picture of himself and caduceus and some master-figure
06:40 Rinku> yeah
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